Adding a Gitea hosting service to IndieHosters

@pierreok I’m very grateful that you took the time to think and write about this idea! And thanks for allowing more links, I’ll amend the original message with references for posterity.

The language barrier is a significant one and I’m glad you confirm this. It is easy to overlook how it can be an obstacle. But it is a fundamental way for people working on the same project to bond together and choosing to embrace a common language makes a lot of sense. I participated in a project last year involving about twenty people and they chose differently: only to speak English although all but one of them spoke another language fluently. It created frictions (not tensions) and made it harder for everyone to communicate. In the end I’m not convinced the benefit was significant.

The GitLab choice is something I did not see and is a sound one. Although I feel closer in spirit to Gitea and very much admire the originality of sourcehut, they currently fill different spaces in the Free Software world. I can imagine how these differences fueled internal debates in indiehosters :stuck_out_tongue: The idea that was proposed does not necessarily imply a change within the organization but it would require learning and adopting another forge, at least at some level and I can understand how this would need to be approved collectively.

The notion of growing a new team of two on a new project, a bit independently still requires work on everyone’s part. Even if it is stripped down to the bare minimum (a « mental charge ») it still is more than nothing. And together with the language barrier and the choice of Gitea versus GitLab… it’s a little much when combined. Although the proposal was turned down for a different combination of factors by Gitea, Codeberg and April, it boils down to something similar: not perfectly aligned and not in the roadmap.

It appears that we failed to convince existing organizations of the value of our proposal, four times, and that should tell us something. Your answer is by far the most heartwarming and kind, I can’t thank you enough for that :+1: I’m not sure how to analyze why we were so convinced it would be accepted. One thing comes to mind: a very significant asymmetry in the perception of the value of the proposal. Maybe a fifth proposal will convince Easter-Eggs… or not :slight_smile: In any case there won’t be a sixth.

I like your proposal to keep the discussion open and will diligently keep this topic updated as you suggest. Although it is unclear what can come out of this, I share your impression that this resonates on many levels.

To be continued!

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@pierreok I would love to have a discussion with you on this topic. I took the time to write a blog post to collect my thoughts. For now Aravinth and myself are working on technical stuff and set aside our ambitions to do more than that so there is no rush :slight_smile: I’m pretty much available all the time: if you pick two times slots one of them will very likely be good.

What do you think?

@pierreok @unteem @hougo thanks a lot of today’s discussion. The recording (in French) was uploaded.

https://bittube.video/w/6PS6cJ626HVQgV9EjYbDNC

Since we last discussed a lot has happened at https://hostea.org. I would love the opportunity to debrief whenever you can. Spoiler alert: zero potential customers in sight. And not for lack of looking for them :smiley:

A date pool around July 17th:

And the admin link in case other dates are a better fit:

Cheers

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Done.

I may have found a customer for you :wink:

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:eyes:

Let’s discuss too!

Tuesday July 19th, 2022 3pm UTC+2 https://meet.jit.si/TerribleSplitsCollaborateOpenly

Very much looking forward to this discussion.

A gentle reminder about tomorrow’s meeting. I’ll rehearse my pitch to be 5 minutes and then we can discuss informally.

Thanks for this meeting. The recording is here.

My main takeaways are:

  • Many suggestions to improve https://hostea.org so that it is more appealing to potential customers (the price is difficult to find, etc.)
  • The price of the instances is too low
  • It is very difficult to be sustainable with just renting instances

I said during the meeting that there is no chance to find customers for this product and therefore it does not matter if they are not profitable, as long as they do no loose money.

I then also said that I have an intuition that there might be B2B related income, contracts with governmental agencies who need support, maybe related to federation. And there might be funding for R&D when exploring federation as deployed in Hostea.

But I was not very convincing. In the end Hostea is a service that works from a technical standpoint but has no visible commercial future.

@unteem mentioned a potential customer and I’d be happy to followup with them to figure out if Hostea is a good fit for them.

IndieHosters could become a member of Hostea. I explained the revenue sharing model using this potential customer as an example. And also explained that since Hostea is not incorporated, members invoice each other every months or every three months.

Since Hostea is horizontal and not incorporated, being a member is just a matter of declaring to be a member publicly.

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@unteem @pierreok if and when IndieHosters decides to be a member of Hostea, please let me know and I’ll invite a representative to the forum group which is pretty much the only place that lists members.

To account for the Hostea related work (including today’s meeting), you would need to create or update an issue with the time spent, in this repository. The next income split is likely to happen in September and you’ll get your share. It is explained in more details in the revenue sharing model and the corresponding section of the governance guide. I’m happy to answer any questions you may have, it is still very fresh.

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@unteem @pierreok there has been new developments since we last talked. In a nutshell:

  • Hostea is going to be renamed Gna!
  • Gna! will provide both shared hosting and dedicated hosting
  • Gna! will provide both GitLab and Gitea
  • Gna! will exclusively focus on hosting and not provide services (that’s what IndieHosters does)

It now makes intuitive sense to me why IndieHosters would be a perfect member of the collective. I would very much like the opportunity to present this whenever IndieHosters makes plans for the next six months, which should happen in the next few weeks if I’m not mistaken?

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The renaming happened (very tedious :sweat_smile: ). Would you mind letting me know when IndieHosters members will spend a week together discussing strategy for the upcoming six months? I’d like to make sure I’m available, should you be inclined to discuss how https://gna.org and https://indiehosters.net can cooperate.

Hey ! It is an interesting strategy, I hope it will pan out. We haven’t yet fixed a date for our biannual planning meetup, but it’ll most likely be in November. I think we can plan for a call maybe in October ?

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I’m available whenever you prefer!

What about in the following days?

When do you prefer :

  • Tomorrow afternoon ?
  • Friday morning ?
  • Friday next week ?

(Tim is off this week).

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Friday 28th October would be perfect :sparkles: I’m available all day, you can choose whatever hour you prefer!

Cool ! 11h on Jitsi Meet ?

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C’est noté, à vendredi prochain :slight_smile:

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I’ll be a few minutes late: the videoconference room is busy. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the discussion and the notes :slight_smile: I’m copy/pasting them here (with just typo edits) for the record.


Présentation de GNA!

Service d’hébergement de forge basé sur Gitea et Gitlab.
Inscription gratuite sur une instance mutualisé.
Si besoin de plus de ressources → payant
C’est une vitrine
Approche similaire que Gitlab et Github mais bien sûr pas de logiciel privateur.

Collectif informel. Expertise sur gitlab/gitea.
Collectifs qui travaillent sur Gna sont rémunérés. L’intérêt aussi est que ce soit une vitrine pour eux et leurs offres, solidifie leur réputation.

Questions / Remarques:
Gitlab et pas que gitea ?
Le projet intial c’est la fédération des forges. Donc il y a un intérêt à avoir plusieurs forges.

::: warning
Les leads de Gitea ont récupéré marque et les domaines et créé une boite à Hong Kong
:::

Gitlab fédéré ca sera possible mais sur son fork (https://heptapod.net/)

Comment IH peut s’inscrire là dedans ?

Gna! aujourd’hui c’est:

  • Collectif Libre Solutions (Aravin)
  • BearsTech
  • EasterEggs
  • Webarchitects
  • Autonomics (en discussion)

Faire un dossier de rescrit pour le Crédit d’Impôt Recherche.

1ere étape: passer 1 ou 2 journées avec quelqu’un de IH pour que IH monte son dossier CIR en prenant celui de Easter-eggs en exemple.

Délai pour validation du dossier c’est 3-6 mois.

Ensuite une fois l’argent débloqué. Encore flou, on ne sait pas vraiment où en sera Gna! à ce moment là et ce que voudrait faire IH (travailler sur la stack Gna!, faire des patchs Gitea, bosser sur feature de fédération…)

Dans le dossier CIR, on peut intégrer d’autres choses autres que liés à Gna!.
gitea :wink:
Ex: 50k, 25k sur projets autres et 25k sur Gna!

IH se questionne si veut vraiment continuer l’hébergement de forge et avoir une offre de service
Si fait partie de Gna! => avoir une offre de service autour des forges

Comment se passe la mutualisation de la maintenance du service ?
Pour le paiement un membre du collectif (actuellement Loïc) prend en charge tous les paiements

Pour la maintenance rotation entre les membres du collectif.

Comment intégrer son SSO sur une forge ?

:::info
Pas besoin de faire de bénéficie pour bénéficier du CIR. Si pas de bénéfice, récupère de l’argent.
:::